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manumurf

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Reply with quote  #1 
I just had a system put on my roof.  It was sold to me as a 9.53 kw system.  That is what is on the contract and what it says is guaranteed production. Supposedly

Does that mean it should produce 9.53 kw in a regular basis in the sunniest part of the day? Looking at the inverter website given to me to track production, the highest number I've seen yet has been just below 7000 watts.  I have been looking at daily production (reporting at 5 minute intervals) reports and there is no number over 7000 at the sunniest part of July days in Northern California.

The panels have been installed since early April and we have just recently received our permission to operate from PGE.  

I am new to this, but it seems like the production of the array(s) is not what they sold it to me as. 

Shouldn't it peak at over that 9.53 kw value?

Any advice would be appreciated.  I still owe money on this and don't want to have to try to retrieve it if it seems I am overpaying.

Thanks.  MM

stmbtwle

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Reply with quote  #2 
Weather being what it is, I don't see how they could possibly guarantee production without installing an oversized system which you of course will pay for one way or another. I would check the small print in that guarantee.

https://solarpowerrocks.com/solar-basics/how-much-electricity-does-a-solar-panel-produce/

One of the problems is solar panels are rated at 25C, or about room temperature. However in operation they usually get a LOT hotter, and as they get hotter they produce LESS. On a clear cold day in the winter you might get rated power, or even more. On a hot summer day, not likely.

For an idea on how much power to expect, try this: http://pvwatts.nrel.gov/pvwatts.php

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Solar is like the wind. It may be free, but putting it to work isn't!
Willie, Tampa Bay
Rick H Parker

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Reply with quote  #3 
I am new to this, but it seems like the production of the array(s) is not what they sold it to me as.

The devil is in the details of the guaranteed production. Less than 9.53 kw is still producing. Is the guaranteed production a written guarantee? Does it guarantee 9.53 kW at your location? 

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Rick H Parker
Kansas, USA
Electronics Engineering Technologist
Rick H Parker

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Reply with quote  #4 
I don't see how they could possibly guarantee production without installing an oversized system

One could sell you a 10Kw system and give you a written guarantee that it can produce 10kw of power. The system may very well produce 10kw at the equator therefore the written guarantee would be factual. You could take them to court and they could argue that it can produce 10Kw but they did not guarantee it would do so at your location.

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Rick H Parker
Kansas, USA
Electronics Engineering Technologist
gbwillson

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Reply with quote  #5 
Manimurf-

I think this is an issue of optimal output versus nominal output. On paper, the system may have been designed built for a 10Kw optimal output. But as mentioned, that might have been tested elsewhere, or in a lab under controlled test lighting. So check the guarantee wording carefully as there is likely legal BS written into the documentation covering the arse of the company. Post the guarantee here if you like. You would have lots of eyes looking over your contract which is no doubt written in legalese. Check online and see if any other customers have similar complaints if you haven't already. Solar is relatively new and rapidly changing, the verbiage used to describe a product is likely changing and not yet standardized. The fact remains that you ordered your system a certain size and output because of your needs, and your purchased Kw output is more then 30% lower. So while they may not have committed fraud, they might have sold you an undersized system. 

Related Side note:There is an ongoing class action lawsuit against big-box stores Home Depot, Menards, and Lowes. Apparently the lumber they sell is smaller than advertised, as the 4"x4" posts purchased were ONLY 3.5"x3.5". Same thing with 2"x4"'s. Lowes already settled, while Menards and HD are fighting the claim. 
http://www.finehomebuilding.com/2017/06/22/lawsuits-seek-damages-half-century-industry-practice

Greg in MN
Gordy

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Posts: 137
Reply with quote  #6 
Greg,
I just read this ;-) As to your "Related side note". In 7th grade wood shop back in 1976, the teacher explained that the lumber was rough sawn to the stated dimensions then planed smooth then kiln dried which further reduced the size.  And that people were just lazy and keep referring to it at it's original size ;-) Also a sad statement that a money hungry lawyer will sue over anything even something like this that has been common practice longer than anyone can remember :-(

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Gordy,
Minnesota
Rick H Parker

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Reply with quote  #7 
Also a sad statement that a money hungry lawyer will sue over anything even something like this that has been common practice longer than anyone can remember :-(


Waiting for them to sue Armour, there is no dog in them sausages. [wink]

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Rick H Parker
Kansas, USA
Electronics Engineering Technologist
Gordy

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Reply with quote  #8 
Rick,
Don't give them any ideas [nono]  [biggrin]  It's surprising how many people don't realize that when a company like that looses a case like that, they jack up their prices to recoup their loses. So we end up paying for it [frown]

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Gordy,
Minnesota
Rick H Parker

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Reply with quote  #9 
We need to adopt the the English rule, loser pays all  attorneys' fees arising out of litigation.
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Rick H Parker
Kansas, USA
Electronics Engineering Technologist
Gordy

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Posts: 137
Reply with quote  #10 
Rick,

I have heard that before. But it was pointed out that too many lawyers in the Justus system are dependent on the income from frivolous lawsuits to ever let that past [frown]  Can you imagine the lose in their business, if people had to consider the extra it would cost them if they lost a case and opt not to follow through.

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Gordy,
Minnesota
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