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gbwillson

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Reply with quote  #31 
Dan-

It does kinda look like strong winds could be a problem. The stand itself is 6' wide, with the foot an additional 4'.  The stand is made from 4x6 and 4x4 timbers bolted together, so it is very strong and heavy. In addition, the stand is bolted to the side of the workshop and the 10' wide foot of the stand is secured by long rebar spikes driven into the ground before it froze. Like everything else he builds, heavy duty and overkill are words often used to describe his projects.

Greg 



KevinH

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Reply with quote  #32 
Did it have to be that high due to shading?

The collector I have on my deck blew out of position during the last windy spell.  Luckily the duct joints kept it from damaging where it enters through the window.  I have the stand tied to the deck now.

Kevin H
MN
gbwillson

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Reply with quote  #33 
Kevin-

Yeah, the house and deck canopy would have shaded the collector until after lunchtime if it were on the ground. It's about the only place he could have place it other than on the roof were it be next winter. Christmas day we had 30 mile per hour winds, with gust up to 50 miles per hour and the beast didn't budge. But then again, a lot also depends on the direction the wind is hitting the collector. I didn't ask him how deep his footing spikes are into the ground, but knowing him, they are at least a couple of feet into the frozen ground. 

Greg in MN
dbc

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Reply with quote  #34 
That's one impressive structure.  I'm curious about how the collector is attached, and the framework behind the collector.  Any chance we can see a picture from the back?

Also - I am wondering about the relative merits of ducting through the ends vs. through the back.  Was that why he had a deflector in the intake manifold?
gbwillson

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Reply with quote  #35 
Don-

I'll try to snap a few more pics the back next time I'm over. The collector itself is bolted to the aluminum tubing frame. And the aluminum frame is bolted to the wooden support structure.

And as far as the intakes being on the ends rather than the back of the collector, Craig and I disagree on this one, especially with the current setup. Keep in mind this was supposed to be installed on the roof of the house. So the intake and exhausts ducts connecting to the manifolds. In the current configuration the exhaust comes off the end directly toward the house, so that is good. However, the intake not only has a very long duct run from the house, but the intake has to do a very tight 180˚ turn to enter the collector from the end. While you could argue for and against connecting to the manifolds from either the end or the back, I think the direction of your duct runs likely make the most difference. Craig feels entering from the end of the collector allows a straighter, better flow through the collector. The intake deflector helps to spread the flow of air. Entering from the back spreads the air without a deflector. But to enter from the end through a very tight 2.25"x14", 90˚ adapter adds the equivalent of almost 90' of straight duct. So you are effectively adding a great deal of resistance due to such long duct runs. And I will say this, trying to wrap and insulate such an odd shaped duct adapter is a real pain in the ass! Whereas, connecting and insulating a round duct to a round adapter on the back of a collector can't get any easier. I think connecting to the back looks a lot cleaner too, rather than these extra 2'-3' "arms" sticking out of each end. Overall, either attachment will work in the end, especially when using 8" ducts, since you have almost twice the duct area on any bend or adapter. Just make sure you have plenty of air flow to keep the collector temps down and maximize your system. One last thing to note...Just like his first ZP, Krautman is using two identical 350CFM fans, with one pushing and one pulling. As I mentioned previously, he has not yet tweaked or tightened up his system to maximize airflow. So his CFM is currently lower than his previous ZP, likely due to the very long duct runs, as well as the 180˚ turn trying to move through 6" ducts.

Greg, posting for Krautman Craig in MN
dbc

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Reply with quote  #36 
Greg - Thanks for the explanations.  I thought about coming in through the back at the intake manifold (avoiding the 180 degree turn) and going out through the end.  I abandoned that idea mainly because I was unable to find the 2.25 x 14 to 6 in. round duct adapters locally, either straight or right angle (I would have used straight, since both of my ducts need to point East).  As I described earlier, I probably have bigger ducting limitations to worry about, but it's always good to know the trade-offs.
gbwillson

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Reply with quote  #37 
Don-

Here is a link for a 2.25"x14" straight boot if you wish to come in or out of the end of your collector. Don't you have Menard's locally?
http://www.menards.com/main/heating-cooling/ductwork/ductwork-fittings/2-1-4-x-14-x-6-straight-boot-each/p-1444432275467-c-14260.htm?tid=-3502199764172330904&bargainStoreId=3018



Here is a link to the same-sized connector, except it is a 90˚ corner boot. But this gives the duct fitting the equivalent of about 90' of straight duct! The photo looks off from the actual product, But I have purchased several of these and they are the correct part.

http://www.menards.com/main/heating-cooling/ductwork/ductwork-fittings/2-1-4-x-14-x-6-elbow-boot-each/p-1444432241066-c-14260.htm?tid=-5619565368523837389&bargainStoreId=3018

Greg in MN
dbc

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Reply with quote  #38 
No, unfortunately we don't have Menard's in Colorado, just Home Depot and Lowe's.  I wish we did; having checked out their website, they have a more comprehensive selection of many of the items suitable for building collectors.

Home Depot does carry 2.25 x 12 to 6 in. round adapter, although you have to order it.  The cross section of the rectangular port is a bit less than 6 in. round, which is another reason I didn't pursue it.

I can see one other advantage to end launch - the case where you can build directly onto the wall, but can't, or don't want to, duct through the back directly inside.  Examples would be if you have a masonry wall or brick siding (me) or if you're ducting through nearby windows (seen that on some builds).  I see a lot of advantages to building right on the wall, and I even thought about doing it with my 2x16 ZP.  I finally decided on a stand-off mount to provide a protected area to 'hide' the long intake duct and to reduce shading in Spring and Fall from the low, 36 in. wide roof overhang and from the nearby 4x8 collector.  I guess we all have the site we have, which is why we get so many unique, creative solutions.  With Krautman's roof-mount setup, it seems you would have a choice of either back or end, but even then it would depend on where exactly you want the ducts to come through.

gbwillson

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Reply with quote  #39 
Don-

You are right about being able to choose whether your ducts attach from the side or the back. With a very thin profile, such as stud track framed collectors the choice is all about fit. Craig didn't have a thin collector frame, so he could simple choose his preference, which in his case, was where he plans to have his ducts enter the roof. It looks like you have a choice, based on how far the back of your collector is from the side of the house. From what I can see of your stand from your pics, and the fact you are having trouble finding a good assortment of duct fittings, a simple round take-off attached to the back should be available locally.

And speaking of pics, below are some I shot while over at Krautman's house today. The angle adjustment is nothing more than a ¾" square aluminum tube sliding into a 1" square tube. The angle is adjusted and kept in place by a simple bolt on the side of the 2" tubing. Also note the pivot points.  

Greg in MN

IMG_1018.jpg  IMG_1019.jpg  IMG_1020.jpg  IMG_1021.jpg  IMG_1022.jpg  IMG_1023.jpg  IMG_1024.jpg 

dbc

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Reply with quote  #40 
Great photos - thanks for posting.  The mounting structure is really artistic, as much so as the collector itself.  Hard to believe the whole stand is just for this winter.

You're right - I will have plenty of room behind my 2x16 ZP.  The most I will need is a simple 6 in. round articulated elbow, may not even need that.
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