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Bert

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Reply with quote  #21 
Greg,

Has he tested the screen air spacing out yet?  
Maybe it rolled down the road with that 1500 CFM fan. [smile] Does he have a license plate on it?

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Bert K.
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gbwillson

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Reply with quote  #22 
Bert-

He hasn't started testing yet, but he is getting very close. He sent me an urgent Email this afternoon telling me his output temp was 148˚ @ 18MPH(68˚ input). That's with a 1⅜" screen gap. Admittedly, he has a lot of duct bends, leaks and loose connections right now, so some data error is expected. He's getting rid of any smells, so a little overheating probably isn't a bad thing at this point. I stopped by his house twice today and he was out both times but the collector was running. The alarm was going off on his temp controller too, although I don't know what he had the temp alarm set at. He is striving for a 500CFM output which is almost 29MPH with a 6' duct(that is the current duct size), but likely be changing to 8" ducts which would mean an output CFM of 16.3MPH. So today's test would only have been roughly half of his desired CFM output in order to keep the temps down. More reason to increase duct size to 8". 

Greg in MN


gbwillson

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Reply with quote  #23 
Hi gang-

Krautman is getting really close to testing, but has to work out the air flow first. Using the fan below he needs to adjust the fan pulley until he gets the desired 500CFM output. But using the current 6" ducts with fan and pulleys below he is limited to about 16MPH. Granted, the ducts were only friction fit, so there is a good amount of leakage. Right now he has a 4.25/1 ratio with the current setup. That's 4.25 turns of the motor for every turn of the fan. So a fan pulley roughly half the current size needs to be tracked down. We both agree the 6" ducts are going to be the likely flow limiter, but he wants to see if he can get the fan to move enough air through the 6" ducts since he already has plenty of 6" duct parts. If not, 8" ducts will be swapped out. 

Greg in MN

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Bert

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Reply with quote  #24 
Quite a setup. I bet his neighbors are curious.
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Bert K.
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mranum

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Reply with quote  #25 
Hey that looks awesome! That is one heck of a fan too!! [thumb]
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gbwillson

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Reply with quote  #26 
Greg, posting for Krautman-

Krautman has been working harder now than before he retired. His wife took a bad spill several weeks ago, so he has been pulling double duty around the house and in the yard. Spring came a bit early around here and Krautman is picking up his boat tomorrow. He's a HUGE fisherman, so his ZP screen gap testing will have to wait for now as he needs the space.

He's pretty sure he's going to go with 8" ducting in order to achieve his 500CFM output goal. If he were to use 6" ducts, the resulting air in and out of his 16'x30' den would be nearly 30MPH and be quite loud, in addition to blowing items off the tables and walls. But with 8" ducts, the output speed will be roughly 16MPH and while strong, should be relatively quiet. He's even thought about spitting the 8" output duct into two 6" ducts, further reducing the noise. He may be a bit curmudgeon, but he's one smart cookie too!

But rest assured, come early fall he will be back testing so he has plenty of time to find the ultimate screen gap, while still having plenty of time to mount and install the new ZP before the snow flies once again. If anyone wants to run some tests of their own, please do so. Keep in mind that the "best" screen gap is likely related to the speed of the air flowing through the collector. So try variations to see what works best for your setup. Just be sure to post any results or thoughts!


Greg in MN[wave]
Bert

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Reply with quote  #27 
Hope his wife is doing OK. 
I'm going with 1-1/4" gap. 8" ducts. Will hopefully be able to start on the screens soon.

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Bert K.
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gbwillson

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Reply with quote  #28 
Stopped by Krautman's house and he showed me something he wanted to share with the group. Below is what's left of a plastic deflector Craig had inside the intake manifold. He said the fans weren't off for only a few minutes. But with the badly sagging deflector, very little air could pass through the collector. And the twinwall didn't let him see clearly enough to spot the problem right away. The new deflector is made from metal, which it probably should have been in the first place. Anyway, this is a great example of the damage that can happen should fans fail or airflow is blocked for only a few minutes.

Greg in MN

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gbwillson

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Reply with quote  #29 
Well, here we are at the end of 2016 and I'm hoping everyone got what they asked for from Santa. 

Anyway, my neighbor Craig, AKA Krautman, ended up temporarily mounting his latest collector in the yard instead of the roof. Turns out the lift he was going to use to pick up the collector to the roof can't be used in cold and icy weather, so...

He built this TEMPORARY MONSTER of a stand to support his new ZP just for this winter! But since I've known him he never does anything half-assed. Anywho, he ended up using 6" ducts instead of the 8" for now, since he had some leftover duct insulation and fittings. The 6" adapters attached to each end are very easy to remove and replace with 8" fittings. So as a result of using the smaller ducting, a wicked 180˚ duct turn at the intake, several 90˚ and 45˚ elbows and having such long duct runs he was only able to move 311CFM through his system today. Although I expect he can bump that up quite a bit once he sealed up some of the interior ducting leaks. His workshop ZP moves roughly 440CFM. But the new unit has much longer duct runs. As it is, he is using the same two identical 350CFM fans, one pushing, one pulling into his basement, which is right under the family room. So I would expect the family room, which is exposed on 3 sides to feel more cozy once the heater warms up the sub floor and floor joists.

But for now he still has to finish up a few things, including insulating the exhaust adapter, wiring the snap switch and temp control. But he wants to take a little time off now that he is through the holidays, do a little ice fishing, and relax in the new year before too much tweaking, especially since this is only a temporary install to add a bit of heat to the house, which as of today, it was doing quite nicely. I'll keep you updated if and when he make any further changes or does a bit of testing. Just from today, the numbers looked as good or better that the unit for the workshop. 

Greg for Krautman Craig in Minneapolis

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solardan1959

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Reply with quote  #30 
Hope you don't get any big winds......
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