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gbwillson

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Reply with quote  #11 
Willie-

Old house, mild climate, poorly built,...there are many possible reasons. I've seen far too many, weird and even scary things done to houses that defy logic. I once opened up a bathroom wall in a 1911 rambler to install dual bathroom vanities. Inside the walls were old gas lines from the old gas wall sconces. And the gas lines were LIVE and only crimped and folded to seal them!!! 

In any case, PowerGripe would have to make adjustments to his plans if there is insulation. You would have to route the water or air between the insulation and the subfloor for it to do any good.

Greg in MN

Rick H Parker

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Reply with quote  #12 
"I can understand it over a closed basement, but why would the floor over a vented crawlspace NOT be insulated?"

I can think of two things, Rookie Architect that got advanced too quickly and Shady Contractors. Not claiming these are the only two.

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Rick H Parker
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GOM

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Reply with quote  #13 
I had a single floor home, 2200 sq ft, brick veneer, with earthern crawl space about 2.5 to 3 ft high under entire house in northwest Arkansas.  House was also all electric and winter heating bills were astronomical!  First step was to cover the dirt floored crawl space with heavy plastic.  That lowered heating and cooling costs significantly and also got rid of lots of creepie-crawlers, they didn't like the new plastic environment.  

Second step was to scrounge empty plastic soda and liquor bottles, especially the one and two liter types.  We filled many hundreds with water and lined them up in the crawl space in clusters.  That step lowered the summer AC bill a bit and really made a difference iln winter.  I didn't keep accurate records at the time (1980s) but it was significant.  Advantage of the plastic bottles storing relatively small quantities of water each is no or very little problem if a few break or leak due to freezing.  A few liters of water on the ground, no problem, however, a sizeable tank leaking could be a catasstrophe.

At present, I live in a 4,000 sq ft single floor adobe home atop a giant cement slab in west central New Mexico.  Have quite hot summers, up to 105F or more, and winters frequently down to low teens or even single digit temps from about mid December to early March.  Guess what?  I have probably 250 gallons of water in plastic bottles stashed all over the house.  In closets, odd corners, under beds, etc. They're out of the way, you never see them, yet they do a heck of a job leveling out the house's interior temps winter and summer.  I now have a large drain pipe solar unit that provides 40 plus percent of my heating in winter and does the same thing for my cooling bills in summer when I turn the solar 'heater' on at night. BTW, another advantage, the plastic bottles are free and all that stored water is nice to have in the event of a lengthy power outage when I sometimes have no well pump for two or three days.  I'm especially partial to the rectangular 1.75 liter bottles used by Canadian Mist whiskey.  They are sturdy and ideal for such storage.  My drinking friends save their empties for me and I empty one or two every month myself.  

One last thought.  I plan to experiment this fall with solar reflectors made from flashing metal mounted to 4x8 ft plywood sheets positioned on the north side of my house and facing south to reflect the sun's rays to that side of the house in winter.  I tried this on a small scale last year and it looks promising.  I also plan to use reflectors to keep four 12,000 gallon black plastic water tanks from freezing to hard in winter.  Takes about a week to fill one of the tanks from my irrigation well and I hate to drain the tanks and thus waste that much water in winter.  Oh, and please don't forget plastic bubble wrap as a quick and low cost insulator for crawl space walls, under uninsulated floors, and so on.  Walmart and other firms sell the stuff in large rolls.  I use it on the windows in unused rooms and it really makes a difference.       

Regards,  GOM  


stmbtwle

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Reply with quote  #14 
OK. I've lived in old houses that didn't have insulation in the floor, but they didn't have any anywhere else either. I think the only way to get them warm would have been arson. Powergripe's situation puzzled me.
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Willie, Tampa Bay
Rick H Parker

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Reply with quote  #15 
"OK. I've lived in old houses that didn't have insulation in the floor"

The theory was that with a sealed crawl space or basement you don't need insulation in the floor. The heat rising from the ground will keep the temperature below the floor above ~50F. At the cost of energy, insulation and labor in the past it did not make sense to insulate the floor, I not sure if that still hold true today. However it never did hold true for unsealed foundations. 

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Rick H Parker
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Gordy

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Reply with quote  #16 
GOM,

I started doing the refilled bottle and jar thing about 6 months ago. One question, have you noticed any of them going flat over the years? I ask because while cleaning out my parents house we found cases of pop under a bed, it was about 5-7 years past its best by date and all of the bottles had literally collapsed to 1/2 to 2/3's of full.

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Gordy,
Minnesota
stmbtwle

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Reply with quote  #17 
I've noticed that too, never really gave it that much thought but it could turn into an issue.

Apparently the plastic breaks down over time and the CO2 escapes, and it would make sense that if the CO2 can get out then water vapor could too. Osmosis I guess. I think H2O is a smaller molecule than CO2.

https://cooking.stackexchange.com/questions/5897/how-long-does-unopened-room-temperature-pop-last

I've never noticed any puddles or water stains, but just refilling/replacing a thousand or so pop bottles could turn into a PIA down the road. [frown]

I wonder if bleach or vinegar bottles would last longer?

BTW a 30 gal drum would fit through the access door.

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Solar is like the wind. It may be free, but putting it to work isn't!
Willie, Tampa Bay
Gordy

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Reply with quote  #18 
Willie,

I just remembered a bottle of mineral spirits that did the same thing. The unopened bottle (seal still in-tacked) was crushed and had 1/2" left in it.



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Gordy,
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Rick H Parker

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Reply with quote  #19 
"the bottles had literally collapsed to 1/2 to 2/3's of full."

It is real hard to get a perfect seal against a gas, that is why air compressors have oil mixed with the refrigerant. I suspect it is the carbon dioxide in the pop that leaked off through the seal.
The resulting mixture became more dense and therefore lower volume. 

I don't think the volume is escaping as water vapor because I have never seen or heard of a sealed water bottle doing this. Has any of you observed a sealed bottle of water doing this?





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Rick H Parker
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stmbtwle

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Reply with quote  #20 
I have had bottles of drinking water do it. Nothing in them but water, and still sealed.
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Solar is like the wind. It may be free, but putting it to work isn't!
Willie, Tampa Bay
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